In all the features tables for the motherboards in this article the PCI slots are listed as being PCI v2.3. However, looking at the pictures for the boards, the slots have PCI v2.2 keying. I think the entry in the features tables is wrong. (Is it?)
Seeing all the trouble with the P965 - especially with the non-intel p-ata controller and with the ich8r - I'd be inclined to get a Core2-ready i945P board with ICH7R instead. Would that be a sane idea?
Is the v1.02G Asus P5B-E using all solid capacitors? I read a press release stating that Asus was releasing the "P4B-E Plus" version with all solid caps. Rumor says the "Plus" version will not be sold in the USA.....arrgggggg. Tell me that's not true. I want the solid caps for long-term reliability. I'm wondering if our "Plus" is actually the v1.02G?
The 1.01G and 1.02G boards are exactly the same except for a PLL controller. Asus stills states the P5B-Plus will not be imported into the States but you never know.
I was interested to hear you used this Scythe Infinity Air Cooler as I was going to do the same. Were there any issues with the Northbridge heatsink sitting so close? Or did it just plop right in with no spacing issues?
Did you have any strange anomolies with the X-fi on the DS3 while overclocked? When I was using that board with the F6 bios, I'd have to reboot like 3-4 times before windows would properly detect it. I eventually grew tired of it and bought a P5B-D so I haven't had a chance to try F7 with it.
I did not have any issues with the X-FI on the DS3 when it was overclocked. The F5 and F6 BIOS releases were not X-FI friendly where F4 was perfect. F7 is working for some and not others, I did not have an issue with it. F8 will fix it for good.
Im a little bit disappointed that there are so few informations about the cooling/silencing-related capabilitites of the boards. I would like to know how many fans can be connected, if the connectors are 3- or 4-pin, and if there is a way to control the fan speeds (preferably via SpeedFan). I don't care about a one-percent performance difference. My first priority is a reasonably silent system.
quote: I would like to know how many fans can be connected, if the connectors are 3- or 4-pin, and if there is a way to control the fan speeds (preferably via SpeedFan).
He mentioned the number of fan headers on each board and even added a couple of comments on the ones that did not work right. In the features section there was a statement about whether the included utility worked or not. Sure he did not say anything about SpeedFan but how far do you want a guy to go after 26 pages? Also, if you click on the Enlarge picture on the boards you can clearly make out whether the fan headers are 3 or 4 pin.
-- “…budget sector and includes boards from ECS, Foxconn, Intel, and Gigabyte.” – will the MSI P965 Neo-F be in this set?
-- the Abit AB9 Pro feature set does not show the eSata port on the SI 3132 (two SATA). it does show a serial port on the i/o panel but not one in the picture.
-- The Biostar feature set shows 4 USB on the i/o panel when there are six in the picture.
Some motherboard manufacturers will no longer support your motherboard if they find out you've been running it with a 20-pin ATX plug or a 20->24-pin adapter. Just be safe and get a newer PSU :). I know DFI will no longer support the motherboard if it specifically asks for a 24-pin.
Technically, yes you can use 20-pin PSUs. Will they work, and will the system be stable? That varies. I haven't had any issues on the systems where I've done it, but if you do high overclocking it will likely become a serious issue.
No. As a matter of fact, the adapter should be avoided. Just plug the 20-pin connector to 24-pin receptacle with 4-pin left empty. Like Jarred said, it should work in theory and it does in practice. However, the quality of PSU and how intense is one's OC can affect the (long-term) stability.
I suppose the adapter *could* help, as it ensures power is available on all the 24-pins, but you're still taking the power from the same source so depending on how that works out it can actually make things worse. I would typically say that if you have a 400W or better PSU you should be fine with little to moderate OC'ing even with 20-pins. (I have an OCZ ModStream 450W that certainly works fine in a 939 board with a decent 2.0 to 2.6 GHz overclock.)
Yes! Not to brag about myself or anything, but I went through countless Socket 939 Opterons on DFI NF4 SLI-D with original Antec TruePower EPS12V (20-pins, not the TP2 with 24-pins) including an Opteron 165 @3.0GHz (9x333). TCCD up to 325MHz/2.5-4-3-8! The setup was absolutely stable.
I am rather puzzled. As best I can tell from Google, my kit of Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400 does use Micron D9s...
... but I use a Gigabyte DS3 and even with the awful release F1 BIOS onwards have had no issues using them. Currently I have a stable OC of 501FSB for a 3.5ghz rating on the old F6 BIOS. Can you confirm if this kit of RAM uses D9's or not, because I am running the 800mhz RAM at 1ghz, 2 or 2.1v only, 5-5-5-15 timings, 24 hour dual Prime stable?? I have a kit of Corsair 6400c4 on the way, so I guess this will prove interesting either way.
I would also like to clarify that with the hours upon hours I spent playing around with and overclocking the DS3, I only once experienced a situation where I had to use the BIOS jumper, as I had managed to lock it into a POST/rebooting cycle. Having only used a Abit IS7 before, I can say it was a major difference I quickly noticed.
Thanks for any info, it's appreciated. And good article, by the way!
quote: I am rather puzzled. As best I can tell from Google, my kit of Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400 does use Micron D9s...
Are your 6400's the 6400 plain or 6400C4? There is a difference between the IC chips used.
We have one set of Micron D9 1GB that work properly in this board but they cost about $650 right now and had a beta SPD. We do not have every D9 1GB module available for testing but the 14 we have tried resulted in failure. Some would do 445, some would do 465. Just about every DS3 owner I know has an issue with the recent D9 1G modules not reaching 500FSB at 1:1 in a stable manner. We even tried three different boards during testing. I was able to hit 510 with the 512MB D9 and some beta 1GB Elpedia sticks from OCZ. Gigabyte agrees with our findings and it should be solved shortly.
We really like the DS3, it proved to be a very stable board in testing. As I stated at the end, this board has changed our opinion about Gigabyte again.
Gary, have you tested G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ modules on the DS3? If not please add these to your list. This is some extremely popular Micron D9 memory with favorable reviews on Newegg and our forums.
quote: Are your 6400's the 6400 plain or 6400C4? There is a difference between the IC chips used.
I am currently using the basic 5-5-5-12 1.9v vanilla 6400 kit, not the 6400c3 or the 6400c4. Could you please tell me which of these uses the Micron D9s, since from what you are saying I've only found incorrect info! Thanks for fully explaining this issue with the D9's in your reply, as I did not know Anandtech had tested not one or even two but three DS3's and a whopping 14 modules! So do you know if both the "c3" and "c4" use the Micron D9s, then? I've already ordered the 6400c4 kit, so I am getting the feeling I am in for a rude surprise!
I'm grateful to know that y'all are keeping ontop of the situation, this does go a long way to explaining the extremely large disparity in user results I've read or come across about the DS3. And I'm grateful Gigabyte is working to solve this issue, the user support and countless BIOS work from them is not something I was ever expecting... it's gone a long way to putting them on my top picks list.
And I believe I should be thanking you for the reply. ;)
-- on the second memory chart it always says "4/4 slots populated - 1 Dual-Channel Bank". If all four slots are populated with the same memory, why does it say "1" Dual-Channel Bank?
-- I can only find the GEIL memory at one on-line merchant (via froogle or pricewatch) at $460 for 2GB. That would be $920 for 4GB! it would have been nice if you had also picked a less expensive memory that more of us could afford.
-- ASUS making a significant change to their product and only changing the version makes it VERY hard (impossible) to on-line order the specific product desired. newegg says order and if wrong, they will exchange...but that gets expensive too... and takes at least 7 days turnaround; and no guarantee that it will be the right one even then.
thanks for the article...it was, as always, full of useful data and observations.
1. The charts have been corrected. I stated this above but Jarred and I were editing at the same time on some pages and we did an overwrite on each other's corrections a couple of times. We learned our lesson after the Biostar section turned into the ASUS section. ;-)
2. When we started this article the GEIL and G.Skill PC2-6400 that we used was in the $269~$289 range for a 2GB kit. This was far below the $500+ prices that our OCZ and Corsair memory modules had reached at that time. I am trying to create a memory table at this time as the boards were tested with everything from A-Data DDR2-533 to OCZ PC2-8000VX2. Our intentions were to use mid-range PC2-6400 memory when we started but it appears we chose some memory that is in very high demand and short supply now.
3. As I stated in the article, ASUS will probably call the 1.02G board something else. The 1.01G board is not a slacker. :)
After going through about 4 or so of the motherboards and looking at their windows programs... I just gotta rant.
Why in God's name must motherboard manufacturers make their programs SO UGLY? I'm no Martha Stewart, but even I can see that those programs are attrocious to look at and I actually don't install those cheesy programs because of how horrible they look. I prefer a normal streamlined windows look to my programs, hence why I use the Windows Classic theme. But even if your preference isn't a normal streamlined windows look, I don't see how anyone could find those horrid looking things called applications desirable.
it's Taiwanese tradition. For the people above... the S3 does not overclock as well as the DS3, it's very noticable. The DQ6 is in theory better than the DS3, but may hardly be noticable and when it is, it's probably just luck of the draw.
My only criticism of the review is that only one memory module type was used and that I know other reviews on AT have included some other comparisons... but your review is more recent with more of the facts in(so more relevant). I know you had some references in the article and I know that the Micron chips are the best on average, but on occasion some chips perform better on a per board basis and not just on a per chipset basis.
Review does get 2 thumbs up from me though. The extra side information(EAX2 Support of onboard sound drivers, Micron D9 chips not fully supported, but will be, etc) helps make buying decisions. Thanks for the article!
Gah, how can such an ugly thing be tradition. It honestly detracts from the overall computing experience having something so tastelessly crafted. I guess to each his own :/
Oh, trust me, Gary tested with a LOT of RAM types and manufacturers. However, for the *benchmarks* he settled on one specific set of DIMMs. I think he's trying to put together some information on how the various boards worked with other RAM (see above comment from Gary). Cheers!
LOL...I think its more like: "What the hell were the Abit engineers thinking?!"
Based on your experiences, do you know if the Analog Devices AD1988A HD Audio Codec works in Linux? I wouldn't mind going for the ASUS P5B-E at the end of the year.
And finally, is the rev 1.02G mobo available now? Or in a few months time?
quote: Based on your experiences, do you know if the Analog Devices AD1988A HD Audio Codec works in Linux? I wouldn't mind going for the ASUS P5B-E at the end of the year.
The 1.09 ADI AD1988A drivers worked fine in SUSE 10.1. Realtek has better support at this time but ADI seems to be catching up. Believe it or not, but we booted every board with SUSE 10.1 just to make sure they went to the desktop. We might even do a once in a while look at Linux down the road.
I am setting up a overclocking settings table and will try to show some additional results with different memory types that we used in testing. I have no idea when this will be finished. ;-)
This article is terrific-- now I just need to read the high-end part and I can finally put together a Core 2 Duo system.
Will the DS4 be included in the high-end guide? I don't want a DQ-6 because the copper backplate under the processor socket would prevent installation of a Scythe Ninja heatsink.
Are the AHCI issues going to stay the way they are, with needing to load the drivers from a floppy disk during Windows install, or are there any P965 boards that don't require "an engineering degree and a day off" as you guys said?
The DS4 will be reviewed. Gigabyte has stated they will not bring it into the US but we are still trying to convince them (really more like begging and calling our marketing rep at home on the weekends to beg some more) to release it in the States. The copper backplate can be removed off the DQ6 and I really did not see any benefit with it on in testing. It makes for a good rebate with the price of copper today. ;-)
The AHCI issues stay the way they are at this time. It is frustrating to say the least. I was being a bit sarcastic in my statement but it is a little harder than it should be to enable AHCI on the ICH8R.
Not sure if you live in the US or not but Gigabyte is not bringing/selling the DS4 to the US.
Also, the copper backplate for the DQ-6, can be removed with a tworx(sp?) screwdriver. At XS, many just went to Home Depot and got longer screws for their HSF.
Excellent review that'll help potential buyers enormously. A couple things:
1. Error in the chart (page 14): There is a discrepency between the chart (3-4-3) and the commentary (3-4-4) :)
2. In memory review Wesley always put tRP ahead of tRCD, while Gary does the opposite. It'd be nice to have a consistency for less experienced users!
3. Gary, did you test the P5W-DH with wirless module installed or without? I recently found out the wirless module could skew CPU/memory-sensitive benchmarks on this board big time. I'm not sure if my finding is true in general, but if it is, then the comparison between a board with such feature and a board without it can be unfair.
4. Can Sandra Unbuffered be really an indication of general performace? @400FSB, setting memory ratio 4:5 (DDR2-1000/4-4-3) boosted the score by a whooping 400~500 MB/s from the ratio 1:1 (DDR2-800/3-3-3), which never realized for other tests in a meaningful way. Oh this is about my own testing. :D
1. The timing error is corrected. Jarred and I were editing at the same and we found out after the article went live that our saves to the final copy would overwrite each other. Bad timing for several other mistakes that have been cleared up now.
2. Wes is wrong. Just kidding, we will get on the same page. :)
3. I turned off the WiFi on the PSW-DH. The scores were even worse with it on. Not that they are bad but the board runs a little looser timings in order to overclock at the high end. DFI also does this with their boards targeted for the overclocking market.
4. Sandra Unbuffered can be an indication of performance in apps that are memory sensitive. This is not always the case but it is one of the better yardsticks available at this time.
Do you plan on comparing the Gigabyte DS3 vs the S3 version for us to know if there are performance/overclocking issues with the S3?
The only difference so far between the DS3 and S3 is "All Solid Capacitors".
Are there any other difference I'm missing?
The S3 is $110, and the DS3 is $150.
I have a hard time to justify paying an extra $40 for only "all solid capacitors"
The term is nothing but marketing to me so far.
I haven't seen any proof of a performance/overclocking issue between the two boards.
If you or anyone else plan on testing the differences or can provide something(Ex: any review link) stating otherwise, that would be great.
In theory, cleaner power.... but aside from the theory, the onboard sound does start flaking out the higher you go. This has been true on 2/2 boards I've tried it on. So an add-in card is needed for the higher overclocks... 460+ish.
quote: Intel in their infinite wisdom decided to pull PATA support from this chipset when over 98% of optical drives are still based on PATA technology.
So, how about the (yet unreleased) ATI and NVidia Conroe chipset boards?
Does either chipset include PATA support?
Thanks.
In an earlier AnandTech article, the one about Kentsfield support, it was written that Gigabyte would bring a revision 2.0 of all of their P965 boards to the market in mid-October, including the DS3. The article does not mention whether the board tested was this new rev 2,9 or any other. Could that be clarified?
And does anybody know what was changed/fixed in 2.0?
Gigabyte has not released any further details on the revision 2 boards except for the fact they were addressing some layout issues and possible BIOS improvements. The only major change we could see them making would be going from a three phase power design on the DS3 to a five phase system as an example. The board we tested is still revision 1.
quote: However, the board is not without its shortcomings. We certainly have an issue with this board...
Which board? The topic of the previous page was about sound cards vs. onboard audio. Is there a missing page? Why is there a picture of the Asus heatsink and no mention of which board is the preferred of the bunch?
Woah, there's a lot more there now. Thanks for the explanation.
quote: Overall, the Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 performed the best in our benchmarks when not overclocked.
I just built a workstation for a client using the 965P-DS3, but the board was DOA. I went to a local shop and picked up a 965P-S3 instead (seeing as how the only main feature missing was the solid capacitors of the -DS3), and it performed just as well as the DS3. For $110, a GA-965P-S3 would be the best Cost/Performance of the 965P bunch, in my unresearched opinion.
I think that was a temporary glitch where the article went live before the last page's text was updated. Shame on you for skipping straight to the end.... ;)
Is the v1.02G Asus P5B-E using all solid capacitors? I read a press release stating that Asus was releasing the "P4B-E Plus" version with all solid caps. Rumor says the "Plus" version will not be sold in the USA.....arrgggggg. Tell me that's not true. I want the solid caps for long-term reliability. I'm wondering if our "Plus" is actually the v1.02G?
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62 Comments
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zjohnr - Tuesday, November 7, 2006 - link
In all the features tables for the motherboards in this article the PCI slots are listed as being PCI v2.3. However, looking at the pictures for the boards, the slots have PCI v2.2 keying. I think the entry in the features tables is wrong. (Is it?)Patsoe - Saturday, October 28, 2006 - link
Seeing all the trouble with the P965 - especially with the non-intel p-ata controller and with the ich8r - I'd be inclined to get a Core2-ready i945P board with ICH7R instead. Would that be a sane idea?BadThad - Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - link
Is the v1.02G Asus P5B-E using all solid capacitors? I read a press release stating that Asus was releasing the "P4B-E Plus" version with all solid caps. Rumor says the "Plus" version will not be sold in the USA.....arrgggggg. Tell me that's not true. I want the solid caps for long-term reliability. I'm wondering if our "Plus" is actually the v1.02G?Thanks
Gary Key - Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - link
The 1.01G and 1.02G boards are exactly the same except for a PLL controller. Asus stills states the P5B-Plus will not be imported into the States but you never know.keithke - Monday, October 23, 2006 - link
I was interested to hear you used this Scythe Infinity Air Cooler as I was going to do the same. Were there any issues with the Northbridge heatsink sitting so close? Or did it just plop right in with no spacing issues?Thx
Keith
Gary Key - Tuesday, October 24, 2006 - link
No issues with the Inifinity on all four corners. It is a close fit but it works fine with the enclosed fan.SniperWulf - Monday, October 23, 2006 - link
Hey guys,Did you have any strange anomolies with the X-fi on the DS3 while overclocked? When I was using that board with the F6 bios, I'd have to reboot like 3-4 times before windows would properly detect it. I eventually grew tired of it and bought a P5B-D so I haven't had a chance to try F7 with it.
Gary Key - Monday, October 23, 2006 - link
I did not have any issues with the X-FI on the DS3 when it was overclocked. The F5 and F6 BIOS releases were not X-FI friendly where F4 was perfect. F7 is working for some and not others, I did not have an issue with it. F8 will fix it for good.schlumpfi106 - Monday, October 23, 2006 - link
Im a little bit disappointed that there are so few informations about the cooling/silencing-related capabilitites of the boards. I would like to know how many fans can be connected, if the connectors are 3- or 4-pin, and if there is a way to control the fan speeds (preferably via SpeedFan). I don't care about a one-percent performance difference. My first priority is a reasonably silent system.goinginstyle - Monday, October 23, 2006 - link
He mentioned the number of fan headers on each board and even added a couple of comments on the ones that did not work right. In the features section there was a statement about whether the included utility worked or not. Sure he did not say anything about SpeedFan but how far do you want a guy to go after 26 pages? Also, if you click on the Enlarge picture on the boards you can clearly make out whether the fan headers are 3 or 4 pin.
smn198 - Monday, October 23, 2006 - link
Would you be able to re-run using 4 drives for all of the tests please?
jonp - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
-- “…budget sector and includes boards from ECS, Foxconn, Intel, and Gigabyte.” – will the MSI P965 Neo-F be in this set?-- the Abit AB9 Pro feature set does not show the eSata port on the SI 3132 (two SATA). it does show a serial port on the i/o panel but not one in the picture.
-- The Biostar feature set shows 4 USB on the i/o panel when there are six in the picture.
JarredWalton - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
Fixed - thanks.powchi - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Can I use a 20-pin power supply on these boards since all are using 24-pin connectors? Or will I be needing 20pin to 24pin adaptor?The PSU is an Enermax NoiseTaker EG475P-VE SFMA 470W ATX 12V v1.3.
Aikouka - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
Some motherboard manufacturers will no longer support your motherboard if they find out you've been running it with a 20-pin ATX plug or a 20->24-pin adapter. Just be safe and get a newer PSU :). I know DFI will no longer support the motherboard if it specifically asks for a 24-pin.JarredWalton - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Technically, yes you can use 20-pin PSUs. Will they work, and will the system be stable? That varies. I haven't had any issues on the systems where I've done it, but if you do high overclocking it will likely become a serious issue.powchi - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Jarred,So there's no need to use a 20pin to 24pin adaptor? What are the differences when using and not using an adaptor? Thanks.
lopri - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
No. As a matter of fact, the adapter should be avoided. Just plug the 20-pin connector to 24-pin receptacle with 4-pin left empty. Like Jarred said, it should work in theory and it does in practice. However, the quality of PSU and how intense is one's OC can affect the (long-term) stability.JarredWalton - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
I suppose the adapter *could* help, as it ensures power is available on all the 24-pins, but you're still taking the power from the same source so depending on how that works out it can actually make things worse. I would typically say that if you have a 400W or better PSU you should be fine with little to moderate OC'ing even with 20-pins. (I have an OCZ ModStream 450W that certainly works fine in a 939 board with a decent 2.0 to 2.6 GHz overclock.)lopri - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
Yes! Not to brag about myself or anything, but I went through countless Socket 939 Opterons on DFI NF4 SLI-D with original Antec TruePower EPS12V (20-pins, not the TP2 with 24-pins) including an Opteron 165 @3.0GHz (9x333). TCCD up to 325MHz/2.5-4-3-8! The setup was absolutely stable.powchi - Monday, October 23, 2006 - link
Thanks Jarred, lopri, Aikouka for the reply.Kougar - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
I am rather puzzled. As best I can tell from Google, my kit of Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400 does use Micron D9s...... but I use a Gigabyte DS3 and even with the awful release F1 BIOS onwards have had no issues using them. Currently I have a stable OC of 501FSB for a 3.5ghz rating on the old F6 BIOS. Can you confirm if this kit of RAM uses D9's or not, because I am running the 800mhz RAM at 1ghz, 2 or 2.1v only, 5-5-5-15 timings, 24 hour dual Prime stable?? I have a kit of Corsair 6400c4 on the way, so I guess this will prove interesting either way.
I would also like to clarify that with the hours upon hours I spent playing around with and overclocking the DS3, I only once experienced a situation where I had to use the BIOS jumper, as I had managed to lock it into a POST/rebooting cycle. Having only used a Abit IS7 before, I can say it was a major difference I quickly noticed.
Thanks for any info, it's appreciated. And good article, by the way!
Gary Key - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Are your 6400's the 6400 plain or 6400C4? There is a difference between the IC chips used.
We have one set of Micron D9 1GB that work properly in this board but they cost about $650 right now and had a beta SPD. We do not have every D9 1GB module available for testing but the 14 we have tried resulted in failure. Some would do 445, some would do 465. Just about every DS3 owner I know has an issue with the recent D9 1G modules not reaching 500FSB at 1:1 in a stable manner. We even tried three different boards during testing. I was able to hit 510 with the 512MB D9 and some beta 1GB Elpedia sticks from OCZ. Gigabyte agrees with our findings and it should be solved shortly.
We really like the DS3, it proved to be a very stable board in testing. As I stated at the end, this board has changed our opinion about Gigabyte again.
Thanks for the comments. :)
John - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
Gary, have you tested G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ modules on the DS3? If not please add these to your list. This is some extremely popular Micron D9 memory with favorable reviews on Newegg and our forums.Kougar - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
I am currently using the basic 5-5-5-12 1.9v vanilla 6400 kit, not the 6400c3 or the 6400c4. Could you please tell me which of these uses the Micron D9s, since from what you are saying I've only found incorrect info! Thanks for fully explaining this issue with the D9's in your reply, as I did not know Anandtech had tested not one or even two but three DS3's and a whopping 14 modules! So do you know if both the "c3" and "c4" use the Micron D9s, then? I've already ordered the 6400c4 kit, so I am getting the feeling I am in for a rude surprise!
I'm grateful to know that y'all are keeping ontop of the situation, this does go a long way to explaining the extremely large disparity in user results I've read or come across about the DS3. And I'm grateful Gigabyte is working to solve this issue, the user support and countless BIOS work from them is not something I was ever expecting... it's gone a long way to putting them on my top picks list.
And I believe I should be thanking you for the reply. ;)
jonp - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
-- on the second memory chart it always says "4/4 slots populated - 1 Dual-Channel Bank". If all four slots are populated with the same memory, why does it say "1" Dual-Channel Bank?-- I can only find the GEIL memory at one on-line merchant (via froogle or pricewatch) at $460 for 2GB. That would be $920 for 4GB! it would have been nice if you had also picked a less expensive memory that more of us could afford.
-- ASUS making a significant change to their product and only changing the version makes it VERY hard (impossible) to on-line order the specific product desired. newegg says order and if wrong, they will exchange...but that gets expensive too... and takes at least 7 days turnaround; and no guarantee that it will be the right one even then.
thanks for the article...it was, as always, full of useful data and observations.
Gary Key - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
1. The charts have been corrected. I stated this above but Jarred and I were editing at the same time on some pages and we did an overwrite on each other's corrections a couple of times. We learned our lesson after the Biostar section turned into the ASUS section. ;-)2. When we started this article the GEIL and G.Skill PC2-6400 that we used was in the $269~$289 range for a 2GB kit. This was far below the $500+ prices that our OCZ and Corsair memory modules had reached at that time. I am trying to create a memory table at this time as the boards were tested with everything from A-Data DDR2-533 to OCZ PC2-8000VX2. Our intentions were to use mid-range PC2-6400 memory when we started but it appears we chose some memory that is in very high demand and short supply now.
3. As I stated in the article, ASUS will probably call the 1.02G board something else. The 1.01G board is not a slacker. :)
Thank you for the comments, we appreciate them.
Aikouka - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
After going through about 4 or so of the motherboards and looking at their windows programs... I just gotta rant.Why in God's name must motherboard manufacturers make their programs SO UGLY? I'm no Martha Stewart, but even I can see that those programs are attrocious to look at and I actually don't install those cheesy programs because of how horrible they look. I prefer a normal streamlined windows look to my programs, hence why I use the Windows Classic theme. But even if your preference isn't a normal streamlined windows look, I don't see how anyone could find those horrid looking things called applications desirable.
Nakazato - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
it's Taiwanese tradition. For the people above... the S3 does not overclock as well as the DS3, it's very noticable. The DQ6 is in theory better than the DS3, but may hardly be noticable and when it is, it's probably just luck of the draw.My only criticism of the review is that only one memory module type was used and that I know other reviews on AT have included some other comparisons... but your review is more recent with more of the facts in(so more relevant). I know you had some references in the article and I know that the Micron chips are the best on average, but on occasion some chips perform better on a per board basis and not just on a per chipset basis.
Review does get 2 thumbs up from me though. The extra side information(EAX2 Support of onboard sound drivers, Micron D9 chips not fully supported, but will be, etc) helps make buying decisions. Thanks for the article!
Aikouka - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
Gah, how can such an ugly thing be tradition. It honestly detracts from the overall computing experience having something so tastelessly crafted. I guess to each his own :/JarredWalton - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Oh, trust me, Gary tested with a LOT of RAM types and manufacturers. However, for the *benchmarks* he settled on one specific set of DIMMs. I think he's trying to put together some information on how the various boards worked with other RAM (see above comment from Gary). Cheers!stmok - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
LOL...I think its more like: "What the hell were the Abit engineers thinking?!"Based on your experiences, do you know if the Analog Devices AD1988A HD Audio Codec works in Linux? I wouldn't mind going for the ASUS P5B-E at the end of the year.
And finally, is the rev 1.02G mobo available now? Or in a few months time?
Gary Key - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
The 1.09 ADI AD1988A drivers worked fine in SUSE 10.1. Realtek has better support at this time but ADI seems to be catching up. Believe it or not, but we booted every board with SUSE 10.1 just to make sure they went to the desktop. We might even do a once in a while look at Linux down the road.
xsilver - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
what is the range of overclocking possible with pc6400 ram?without dividers? with dividers?
Gary Key - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Good question, depends on the PC2-6400 RAM. We are working on something right now to answer your question with a few different modules.xsilver - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
probably something standard like corsair VS or something priced very similar if there is better performance elsewherexsilver - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
also I would assume that 1gig vs. 2gig makes no difference but if it does, it would be good to know.Madellga - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Excellent review Gary. I also look forward for the round 2 and also for a 975/ATI/Nvidia reviews.Please try to mention the Vmch used for the overclocking results, as this says a lot about the motherboads also.
Gary Key - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
I am setting up a overclocking settings table and will try to show some additional results with different memory types that we used in testing. I have no idea when this will be finished. ;-)Ryan Norton - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
This article is terrific-- now I just need to read the high-end part and I can finally put together a Core 2 Duo system.Will the DS4 be included in the high-end guide? I don't want a DQ-6 because the copper backplate under the processor socket would prevent installation of a Scythe Ninja heatsink.
Are the AHCI issues going to stay the way they are, with needing to load the drivers from a floppy disk during Windows install, or are there any P965 boards that don't require "an engineering degree and a day off" as you guys said?
Gary Key - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
The DS4 will be reviewed. Gigabyte has stated they will not bring it into the US but we are still trying to convince them (really more like begging and calling our marketing rep at home on the weekends to beg some more) to release it in the States. The copper backplate can be removed off the DQ6 and I really did not see any benefit with it on in testing. It makes for a good rebate with the price of copper today. ;-)The AHCI issues stay the way they are at this time. It is frustrating to say the least. I was being a bit sarcastic in my statement but it is a little harder than it should be to enable AHCI on the ICH8R.
Ryan Norton - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
I'm in Taiwan, so the DS4 is all over the place :)Capt Caveman - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Not sure if you live in the US or not but Gigabyte is not bringing/selling the DS4 to the US.Also, the copper backplate for the DQ-6, can be removed with a tworx(sp?) screwdriver. At XS, many just went to Home Depot and got longer screws for their HSF.
lopri - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Excellent review that'll help potential buyers enormously. A couple things:1. Error in the chart (page 14): There is a discrepency between the chart (3-4-3) and the commentary (3-4-4) :)
2. In memory review Wesley always put tRP ahead of tRCD, while Gary does the opposite. It'd be nice to have a consistency for less experienced users!
3. Gary, did you test the P5W-DH with wirless module installed or without? I recently found out the wirless module could skew CPU/memory-sensitive benchmarks on this board big time. I'm not sure if my finding is true in general, but if it is, then the comparison between a board with such feature and a board without it can be unfair.
4. Can Sandra Unbuffered be really an indication of general performace? @400FSB, setting memory ratio 4:5 (DDR2-1000/4-4-3) boosted the score by a whooping 400~500 MB/s from the ratio 1:1 (DDR2-800/3-3-3), which never realized for other tests in a meaningful way. Oh this is about my own testing. :D
Thanks for the great review.
Gary Key - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Thanks for the comments.1. The timing error is corrected. Jarred and I were editing at the same and we found out after the article went live that our saves to the final copy would overwrite each other. Bad timing for several other mistakes that have been cleared up now.
2. Wes is wrong. Just kidding, we will get on the same page. :)
3. I turned off the WiFi on the PSW-DH. The scores were even worse with it on. Not that they are bad but the board runs a little looser timings in order to overclock at the high end. DFI also does this with their boards targeted for the overclocking market.
4. Sandra Unbuffered can be an indication of performance in apps that are memory sensitive. This is not always the case but it is one of the better yardsticks available at this time.
Lothar - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Do you plan on comparing the Gigabyte DS3 vs the S3 version for us to know if there are performance/overclocking issues with the S3?The only difference so far between the DS3 and S3 is "All Solid Capacitors".
Are there any other difference I'm missing?
The S3 is $110, and the DS3 is $150.
I have a hard time to justify paying an extra $40 for only "all solid capacitors"
The term is nothing but marketing to me so far.
I haven't seen any proof of a performance/overclocking issue between the two boards.
If you or anyone else plan on testing the differences or can provide something(Ex: any review link) stating otherwise, that would be great.
Nakazato - Monday, October 23, 2006 - link
In theory, cleaner power.... but aside from the theory, the onboard sound does start flaking out the higher you go. This has been true on 2/2 boards I've tried it on. So an add-in card is needed for the higher overclocks... 460+ish.goinginstyle - Monday, October 23, 2006 - link
No issue here with the Biostar board at 500FSB and the Realtek ALC-883. It sounds fine but a X-FI is still the way to go for gaming.Gary Key - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Yes, the S3 will be in part two. :)
Lothar - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
The only other differences I found were RAID support and 2 extra USB ports...It's not worth the $40 price difference if performance and overclocking results are the same IMO.
vailr - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Re:So, how about the (yet unreleased) ATI and NVidia Conroe chipset boards?
Does either chipset include PATA support?
Thanks.
Gary Key - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
They both have native support for two drives.
n7 - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Gary, always love your reviews!I read thru the whole thing, & it was a good read :)
Meticulous detail, as well great sarcastic humor as well.
I look forward to the following parts.
Sho - Friday, October 20, 2006 - link
In an earlier AnandTech article, the one about Kentsfield support, it was written that Gigabyte would bring a revision 2.0 of all of their P965 boards to the market in mid-October, including the DS3. The article does not mention whether the board tested was this new rev 2,9 or any other. Could that be clarified?And does anybody know what was changed/fixed in 2.0?
Gary Key - Friday, October 20, 2006 - link
Gigabyte has not released any further details on the revision 2 boards except for the fact they were addressing some layout issues and possible BIOS improvements. The only major change we could see them making would be going from a three phase power design on the DS3 to a five phase system as an example. The board we tested is still revision 1.Sho - Saturday, October 21, 2006 - link
Thanks!dreddly - Friday, October 20, 2006 - link
'caliper' should be caliber on AB9Pro pageGreat work on this roundup though, impressive job.
Puddyglum1 - Friday, October 20, 2006 - link
Just some questions =)
Great article for Cost/Performance comparison. Which board? The topic of the previous page was about sound cards vs. onboard audio. Is there a missing page? Why is there a picture of the Asus heatsink and no mention of which board is the preferred of the bunch?
Puddyglum1 - Friday, October 20, 2006 - link
Woah, there's a lot more there now. Thanks for the explanation.I just built a workstation for a client using the 965P-DS3, but the board was DOA. I went to a local shop and picked up a 965P-S3 instead (seeing as how the only main feature missing was the solid capacitors of the -DS3), and it performed just as well as the DS3. For $110, a GA-965P-S3 would be the best Cost/Performance of the 965P bunch, in my unresearched opinion.
JarredWalton - Friday, October 20, 2006 - link
Now you're skipping ahead to part 2! :pJarredWalton - Friday, October 20, 2006 - link
I think that was a temporary glitch where the article went live before the last page's text was updated. Shame on you for skipping straight to the end.... ;)BadThad - Sunday, October 22, 2006 - link
Is the v1.02G Asus P5B-E using all solid capacitors? I read a press release stating that Asus was releasing the "P4B-E Plus" version with all solid caps. Rumor says the "Plus" version will not be sold in the USA.....arrgggggg. Tell me that's not true. I want the solid caps for long-term reliability. I'm wondering if our "Plus" is actually the v1.02G?